Use Clawbacks to Fund the Wall Street Bailouts - Discussion
Opinion Editorial
Michael Thomas shares his insights from working with dot com and venture capitalists and witnessing first hand how they cleaned up the dot com bubble mess using clawbacks. He has some suggestions for the Wall Street One Percenters. Read his thoughts here and tell us what you think!
Photo credits: © 2008 TH


clawbacks
Submitted by mr. tikey on Fri, 01/23/2009 - 01:55.Clawbacks Are Cost Recovery Not Retaliation
Submitted by Michael Thomas on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 13:15.Clawbacks are not especially intended to assess culpability or punishment or retaliation. They are simply a means of recouping lost investments, a cost recovery mechanism.
Clawbacks are similar to environmental cleanup cost recovery mechanisms enacted to pay for cleanups of historically created environmental disaster areas. The policy choice in shaping these environmental laws was whether to make the polluters pay for cleanup or the taxpayers pay for cleanup. In choosing to make the polluters pay of environmental cleanup, every party who was known to have done business with the disaster site was deemed liable, without regard to fault, to pay for the cleanup. It was assumed that the parties doing business with the disaster sites by dumping their waste at the site derived economic benefit from doing so. Therefore, there was some sense in which it was more just to make the polluters pay for the cleanup than to make the taxpayers pay for the cleanup. In the environmental arena, the polluters are held jointly and severally liable to pay for the cleanup.
The analogy here is that the One-percenters who derived trillions in economic benefit from collectively creating the financial disasters would be held to pay for the bailout through clawbacks. The clawbacks would not be an assessment of guilt or culpability. The clawbacks would be imposed based on the simple policy judgment that it is more just to have the One-percenters who derived economic benefit from creating the conditions necessitating the bailout pay for the bailout than to have the taxpayers who did not derive such benefits. The clawbacks would simply be the cost recovery mechanism for effectuating that policy judgment.
The author.
Thank you for this great explanation
Submitted by cho on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 13:21.I understood, pretty much from your article, that this "usage fee" (not sure that term makes sense -- but I will use it for now) wasn't punitive... but a more equitable way of having those who benefitted from the scams pay out of the ill-gotten gains for the clean up.
True, there are taxes from which I benefit from indirectly, such as those that support the schools, that I pay willingly. But right now, I see no accountability for those who squandered our assets. And thus, what is to keep them from doing it all again at the very next opportunity?
I find it odd, that the very folks who argue that capital punishment functions as a deterent do not see that it could be argued that clawbacks might have a similar impact on the robber barons.
I have reservations
Submitted by Welshman on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 21:12.I would like to engage in this debate but have considerable difficulty for a number of reasons.
I agree with the writer that everyone must feel uncomfortable that many have made fortunes out of the sub-prime market while exposing their company, their shareholders, the country, and you and I to ever greater risk
At this time, however, we are only just beginning to identify the mechanisms in our financial and regulatory systems that have brought us to the brink of this meltdown. Were we clear on where the problems fully existed, we would have less of a problem right now in deciding the appropriate solutions.
Where does culpability lie? Is it with Cho’s ambitious salesman, rewarded for doing well what he was asked to achieve? Is it with heads of the businesses who believed, and many who still believe, that the market will right itself if it can just package another lot of sub-prime mortgages and find a bank with a credit line to buy these? Is it with people in the regulatory authorities that failed to exercise properly many of the controls available to them? Is it with Congress, who failed to exercise proper oversight and enact laws whilst fully knowing that financial markets were running rampant? Or is the culpability with us, accepting knowingly mortgages that would place us at risk and maxing out our credit cards without the means to repay them except by further ever escalating loans?
I cannot and will not lash out blindly finding culprits to penalise. I am neither judge nor jury. I will not do so out of envy or seeking an eye-for-eye or out of a sense of an inequality of justice.
I do respect the law and if laws have been broken then clawbacks are just. For example, we in this country under the Law of England and Wales exercise claw backs against those found to have gained from criminality.
I have only small issues with capping the salaries and bonuses of those whom may be the beneficiaries of the bailout money, even though I think that this is just a populist and not very well thought out measure that is a distraction from the main and much more critical issues.
Retrospective retribution against those who have may committed no crime worries me far more, unless you seek, and feel confident in defining, a breach of moral law in a way that we can all agree. Maybe doing so against fat cats in Wall Street gives me momentary satisfaction, but the realisation of the precedent it creates quickly removes any such pleasure.
When hurt in the way that we are seeing our countries hurt and many of our citizens hurt, it is natural to look for scapegoats onto whom we can direct our anger. Was this not the way that George W. Bush persuaded his country to invade Iraq after 9/11? Was our target right then and was our response right then?
Retaliation, for in a way that is what claw backs are, against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing is best determined with distance between yourself and the event that is causing your anger.
So all of these reasons are why I have difficulty in joining in properly this debate at this time.
Update I am listening to President Bush live on my TV. Hearing what he has to say, I realise that I left him off my list of those culpable. Now, I can truly say mea culpa
Ex-SEC Official Blames Agency for Blow-Up of Broker-Dealers
Submitted by luaptifer on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 11:29.Welshman,
I know that you are right in this feeling. But I am certain that most Americans don't have a real understanding as to the extent the Bush class creates and/or uses crisis to gain political / financial benefit at the cost of lesser classes.
I think this official's insight can help get you closer to understanding why clawbacks would apply to the top-tier bankers, at least.
By JULIE SATOW, Staff Reporter of the Sun | September 18, 2008
http://www.nysun.com/business/ex-sec-official-blames-agency-for-blow-up/86130/
Regulators design mechanisms to regulate those who need to be held in check against their tendency to try to benefit themselves at the expense of the public. The mechanism simply didn't work.
The top of the SEC's response to the crisis was simply to outlaw short-selling of the financials. It'll never happen but I think clawback provisions should be written into an umbrella arching over the top tier who made these decisions to favor their big five failures as well.
"So your party is the only party that can save the country from the mess that your party created?" - attrib. Jon Stewart
Welshman..
Submitted by cho on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 22:52.Perhaps you might find the transcript from Ira Glass's show "This Giant Pool of Money" interesting. In some ways, his thesis is as yours... and probably the same as most of ours... it's not a person, or even a group of people, but it's a way of thinking that permeates a culture.
The transcript is here, a pdf The Giant Pool of Money . In it he and his NPR co-host interview as many as they can along the chain, from the person taking out the mortgages, to the salesman bundling the mortgages to meet the demand, the CDO creators, the mortgage bankers. As JeninRI stated in her comment when she first linked to it, the show/transcript paint an amazing picture, sad and amazing.
Clawbacks
Submitted by cho on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 18:22.I had never heard of the term before, but I like it and it somehow seems totally appropriate when used in this context of clawing back the money that these guys made, some of them 25 year salesmen with no real "skills" but raking in $100,000 a month bundling sub prime mortgages into CDO.
Wouldn't it be amazing
Submitted by luaptifer on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 18:57.and, gosh maybe even "Just" if the big money cronies finally held to account, literally, those who are most accountable?
I like that term, "One-percenters", for the rarified 28% of the economy.!
"So your party is the only party that can save the country from the mess that your party created?" - attrib. Jon Stewart
28% of the money in the economy
Submitted by cho on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 20:33.that 1% holds almost a third of the money in this country.
Scarey.