Obama and McCain Debate Tonight

Bumped. Originally posted 2008-08-16 18:34:54 -0500.

I am going to give this pastor the benefit of the doubt on all of this before tonight's debate between Obama and McCain since his background seems to show a little more enlightenment than most of the religious types we have seen spoon-fed to the masses on TV news in the last couple of decades:

"As a pastor, I believe in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe we can separate religion from politics, because one's faith determines one's worldview, which informs one's decisions and determines how one would lead," Warren said.

His views on many of the political problems we face appear to be more encompassing - to include all of the very real problems of AIDS, poverty, the environment - as well as the other issues we usually hear about from the one-trick pony that Dobson's Focus on the Freepers has become. There are too many important issues that Dobsonites have purposefully and completely ignored and, even, fought hard to suppress in the religious discussions of politics.

But I do have a problem with some of the McClatchy story on the debate:

McCain often mentions how his faith sustained him while a prisoner of war in Vietnam, telling how one of his captors treated him humanely and once secretly drew a cross in the first to signal his own faith.

McCain also talks about his stewardship of the environment and care for the poor — his wife helped found the American Voluntary Medical Team and led 55 medical missions overseas to deliver emergency medical care to the poor. Asked to provide medical care to two babies from Mother Theresa's orphanage, McCain brought one home and the McCains adopted her.

McCain, reared an Episcopalian, now attends a Southern Baptist church in Arizona. He opposes abortion rights.

Obama has talked about how his Christian faith influenced his public life, which included working as a neighborhood organizer trying to help people who lost their jobs. He became a practicing Christian as an adult, joining the Trinity Church of Christ headed until recently by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Obama quit the church during the primary campaign after inflammatory comments by Wright hit the Internet. He supports abortion rights.

Never mind the multiple hypocrisies like: McCain calling his captors gooks; being on the republican team, McCain has literally and consistently put corporations ahead of your health and the health of the environment (Some steward, eh?) and talks about the environment but refuses to vote for it; And being on the same republican team that has refused - after decades of control over congress and nearly a decade of control in the White House - to do absolutely anything substantive to address Americans' health care needs and has created the largest gap in decades between the rich and poor AND created more working poor families than I can ever remember seeing in my lifetime. Never mind the pure hypocrisy in all of that...

What I want to know: Why do they have to write the story to say that McCain attends a different church - You know? Different from the one that gave McCain his faith that was so rock solid that it carried him through his POW experience on into his multiple affairs (not even mentioned in this story on personal faith) and divorce (not a word on that either?) - But Obama?

Obama QUIT the church.

Yep! McCain simply attends a different church but Not Obama... Obama quit the church. All things considered, is that a fair assessment and honest message coming from any of the traditional media given this topic of personal faith? Interesting choice of words. Kind of straight out of a Frank Luntz school of framing for the media.

How are we supposed to judge a debate focusing on giving "a place for America to hear the candidates' hearts by going beyond moral issues and their virtues, to also share their values and vision for leadership" when important facts are misrepresented and left unchecked in the media before the debate has even started?

Hopefully the pastor will give an honest effort illuminating the issues that are truly in the public interests. But, equally important, I hope that the pastor has done his homework on the many issues that are too often left answered - or are reported on - in a dishonest manner by politicians and media stenographers.

Anyways... The debate, the first time Obama and McQueeg, err, McCain will meet to put forth their positions from any point of view - faith based or not - is tonight at 8 P.M. for your own personal viewing pleasure - Faith based or not.

[update] It appears that it really isn't a debate after all. Just an interview setting for the two candidates to discuss these issues with Warren:

“Though appearing separately, the candidates will field similar questions about their faith, abortion, same-sex marriage and humanitarian efforts abroad,” writes Maeve Reston in The Los Angeles Times. It is a chance for both to hone their comments on sensitive topics and practice connecting with an audience not chosen by their tightly controlled campaigns.”

While the HuffPo calls it a "forum" on faith:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has reaffirmed his stance that marriage is "the union between a man and a woman," although he supports civil unions for gay partners.

Sorry, but I am for marriage equality... Because you can't pick and choose who has a right to freedom. Never mind the fact that I never had to get permission from gays, lesbians and bisexuals in order for me to be allowed to get married to my wife. Why should they have to get my permission?

Apparently Blue Texan at Firedoglake is "drunkblogging" this event:

Who loves Jesus more?

That's what we're about to find out as Barack Obama meets John McSame at Rick Warren's megachurch in the heartland of America -- Orange County, California.

A note on Warren -- he helped Bush get elected in 2004. And Serious Person of Faith Andrew Sullivan calls him "pernicious."

For the record, this practicing Roman Catholic thinks this is absolutely terrible for the republic and a huge freaking embarrassment. But aided by a pretty decent pinot noir, I'll give you my thoughts, in real time.

Get your Tivos revved up... This really is campaign comercial stuff dreams are made of:

McSame just refused to define what upper and middle class was in actual terms. Amazing. Though [McCain] finally copped to saying "rich" meant "$5 million a year." That's a campaign ad, Obama people. Contrast that with Obama's very direct answer. Not very straight-talky.

$5 million per year is rich??? How out of touch with the realities of today's economy can McCain possibly be? $5 million per year is uber-ultra-elitist rich. You can bet that Cindy McCain, his second wife, is the one that watches their money 'cause McCain is clueless when it comes to the cost of living.

[update] Welcome to Buzztracker readers that seem to be finding this and other pages on this Blog for some reason or another?

[update] If you are pro-choice, clearly John McCain isn't for you.

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Either they weren't up to par here OR I am just too damned picky?

the purpose driven life is not a neutral person ... see Talk 2 Action article. I have lots of research piling up on him and his disciples ...

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. ~ George Carlin