ABC = "All 'Bout Clinton"

cross-posted @ Daily Kos

Here we go again, a sorry ass debate about NOTHING.

In fact it is a "Gotcha Debate" more than anything else.

And why should George Stephanopolous who once worked for The Clintons be a moderator? Conflict of interest?

And these questions are the worst, which brings back memories of my diary about CNN=Clinton News Network.

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This debate is clearly to give Hillary Clinton the edge. I guess this is the real Hail Mary from Hillary Clinton after getting disatrous news from the Washington Post/ABC Poll.

While the debate is NOTHING but about Wright, Bitterness, Bosnia, Flag Pin, Weather Underground, in other words WTF?

You mean that ABC could not come up with solid questions about the environment, health care, college tuition, KATRINA, our infrastructure and the list is endless. ABC spends its time on bullshit?

And I mean total bullshit!!!

ABC talked about somebody named Ayers who happens to live in the same community as Obama and has his own issues, but then try to LINK this man's words to Obama? This is sheer bullshit.

Then Hilly states we need more investigation on Reverend Wright and Louis Farrakhan? Are you kidding me? We need more investigation on Norman Hsu, Vin Gupta, the Clinton Library Donors, your Bosnia tale (in depth), and your list is ENDLESS.

In other words, ABC had a golden opportunity to present a good debate, but decided to give us a "Gotcha Debate" full of bullshit. They have just joined CNN in that bunch.

The American public do not care about Bittergate, because the shit is true. The public don't care about Reverend Wright, because Obama did not say those words. The public don't care about who wears a flag pin, because the ones wearing it now are the worse criminals of this country ever.

The public cares about moving this country forward. They care about getting health care reform created. They care about the mortgage crisis. They care about gas prices and utility prices out of control. They care about food prices skyrocketing. They care about getting us out of Iraq and the 10B a month price tag. They care about ending this trade agreement with China.

We care about taking our country back, but none of our concerns were addressed tonight for the sake of making a primary race that is mathematically over more than it is. ABC lost a golden opportunity indeed.

No wonder the public sentiment is low towards the media. They have a problem of something that is called being non-bias. They don't give us the facts but perception. That is why people are turned off by not only the media but politics in general.

ABC did not either ask or spend enough time on the questions that we care about, instead they decided on the "Gotcha" approach and just lost me as a viewer.

Finally, Hillary Clinton has turned to the Dark Side, meaning into the arms of the GOP.

If you are fed up, pissed off, just disgusted with ABC and Hillary Clinton's GOP tactics, send a donation to The Obama Campaign.

Update [2008-4-16 22:28:9 by icebergslim]:
From David Plouffe, Obama Campaign Manager:

Tonight we saw a real choice between the old politics of point-scoring and distraction and a politics that focuses on bringing us together to actually solve the challenges we talk about every single election. Continuing the theme of her campaign, Senator Clinton used every single opportunity she had to launch misleading attack after misleading attack against Barack Obama, which is why polls show that most Americans think she’s running the most negative campaign and don’t believe she’s trustworthy. Barack Obama spoke about the issues that actually matter in people’s lives, like how he plans to end the war in Iraq, cut middle-class taxes, help people stay in their homes, and provide a secure retirement for our seniors. That’s why more Americans are putting their trust in Barack Obama to bring about the change we need in Washington.

Update [2008-4-16 22:32:56 by icebergslim]:

CALL ABC NOW: 212-456-7777

Also: dial 818-460-7477 press 2 then 6 then 639

ABC NEW YORK NEWSROOM: (212) 456-5100 newsradio@abc.com Newsroom Fax Machine 212.456.5150

Peter Salinger (THE MAN IN CHARGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE) Director, Special Events & Sports 212.456.5105 peter.salinger@abc.com

Cristi LandesManager, Programming 212.456.5107 cristi.d.landes@abc.com

Wayne Fisk Director, Programming 212.456.5327 wayne.fisk@abc.com

Jeff Fitzgerald Executive Director, Operations 212.456.5554 jeffrey.t.fitzgerald@abc.com

Heidi Oringer Executive Director, Entertainment 212.456.5541 heidi.b.oringer@abc.com

Jon Newman News Coverage 212.456.5100 jonathan.m.newman@abc.com

Joyce Alcantara Assignment Manager 212.456.5106 joyce.a.alcantara@abc.com

Jim Kane Deputy D.C. Bureau Chief 212.222. 6604 james.f.kane@abc.com

Andrew Kalb Executive Director, Programming 05.567.2269 andrew.l.kalb@abc.com

Robert Garcia Executive Director, News & Sports 212.456.5103 robert.garcia@abc.com
h/t Billary Redux
h/t Billary Redux

Update [2008-4-16 22:55:31 by icebergslim]:

Video of the crowd booing the moderators toward the end.

Update [2008-4-16 22:58:11 by icebergslim]:

Al G and The Field's take on this debate. Here.

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Comments

I found it all quite amusing on the sad side. No matter what either candidate says, watch their body language. It did my heart no good to watch Hillary's face...she couldn't hide her glee when Obama was answering the sticky questions. I don't remember Hillary explaining why she was not wearing a flag pin or is this just a guy thing?

To be sure, this debate was more than likely a preview of what we all can expect to hear from the GOP very very shortly. So let's turn the debate around and begin a positive critique on Mr. McCain and possible running mate as well as Obama. Do not let this debate define the next election.

I read a comment this morning from a fella on Americablog that I found very interesting....with regard to how the Republicans govern once elected:

What a characture of itself this Administration has become. It has greatly lifted the old observation to new heights - Repulicans complain about how government doesn't work, then get elected, and then go on to prove their point by incompetently carrying out governmental policies they know nothing about except for their baggage of complaints they carry around with them. The current Republicans in office now want us to carry their baggage for them. Vote Death to the Republican Party in '08! -Kevo

Think outside the box, not inside the GOP box! NO FEAR!

I wanted to hear the famous Thursday show with Edwards on as well as spots by Clinton and Obama. It was hilarious. Here's the link

carol

Obama failed the test. He has been nearly perfect on the road and in other debates even when he's been completely exhausted, yet in this one he actually let the interviewer's get away with asking such dumb questions?

When a candidate gets a dumb question, it is vital to provide a smart answer. Like "wrong question", or "is there an elephant under that desk, or did you make that up all by yourself?", or "unlike my fellow Senators, I won't wear anything made in China - including lapel pins. Now John McCain on the other hand. . . "

No excuses. He picked one helluva time to have a bad night.

that the Obama supporters have not taken a stand against the press in the previous debates which were just as poor so that the media would get the message that Democrats are not going to take this any longer. Otherwise, it is apparent that the concern is with how one candidate is treated instead of focusing on the real problem of the press treatment of Democrats verses Republicans. And this extends beyond elections to coverage of Congress too.

Otherwise, I would suggest following rba's advice to show up prepared and perform well or suffer the consequences. This is just a warm up to what the general will be like for the Democratic nominee. Otherwise, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. No one knows better than the Clintons that every statement, association and action are fair game when you are running for political office. And Obama's hands are just as dirty when it comes to using Republican talking points against Clinton. It doesn't help the party but it needs to cease to be a part of each campaign, not just one.

of Obama's GOP talking points.

Because the only one playing that game is Hillary Clinton.

I can take the heat that Obama does not do well at a debate, that is warranted. But I expect issues, not innuendos to be discussed not Bosnia Gate, Rev Wright, Flag Pin?? Flag Pin a typical GOP tactic.

When November hit, nobody is going to give a shit about a flag pin, Bosnia, Rev Wright. They only want to know who is going to get these gas prices down, troops out of Iraq, end China's influence in this country, the education system in this country that is up to almost 50% of our young folk not graduating.

Not that other bullshit that was given last night. The GOP does not deserve another 4 years in office, they fucked the time that they had. Talk about fiscal responsible? What about fiscal irresponsible.

If we allow to be scared or scurred by the "GOP" shit, we don't deserve the WH or any down races advances. IF we are going to walk behind, or pivot because of the GOP, then we don't need to be in the game.

It is time for a new strategy, a new way, and not the Clinton way. This country has been there and done that with the Clintons. Elections are about the future, not the past.

and really could not care less which one wins the nomination. The mudslinging has left me with little hope for our country.

I have not heard anything "new" coming from either Clinton or Obama and don't think either one of them can or will be able to change the direction we are going in this country.

To me, Obama seems to be merely a clever image designed by a clever political marketing team. I guess I am one of those "bitter" people he referenced --- because when I cast my vote in November [and I haven't decided who I will vote for] it will be with bitterness, not hope.

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. ~ George Carlin

From McClatchy, Nash McCabe explains ... is not just about the lapel pin, Obama questioner explains why she finds him annoying

But she sees a difference between the two. In Clinton, she sees someone who has struggled for years, just like her, and has earned the right to be president. In Obama, she sees someone who rose like a rocket, always has a smooth explanation for everything — whether it's about his former preacher or the flag pin — and who makes it all look too easy.

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. ~ George Carlin

First, both candidates are politicians and both have acted like politicians. I am an independent thinker don't take my cues from campaigns or partisan blogs. I think there is far too much hypocrisy being flung around this year.

Obama uses Republican talking points on policy issues and attacks against Clinton. There are two on policy, Social Security crisis and health policy mandates. The ones he or his campaign have used against Clinton that I can think of off the top of my head are:

  • Copying the Harry & Louise ad from the 90's to attack Hillary's health care plan
  • Referring to the Lincoln Bedroom in the Clinton presidency
  • Stating Hillary will say or do anything
  • Referring to Hillary as unprincipled, calculating and poll driven

I know there are more but I don't want to bother taking the time to put together a complete account since I am not concerned with a number, just that it has occurred.

I have been unhappy with the way the press has covered the primaries and just as unhappy with many of the liberal blogs too. There are only a couple of blogs that I even bother to read anymore because of the uncivil behavior and disregard for accuracy or facts. The previous debates were just as full of ridiculous questions and bias as this one. The difference with the debate in Pennsylvania is that Obama was treated with same as Hillary and other Democrats have been in prior debates. But I am not going get enraged over one when the others have been perfectly acceptable to far too many Democrats.

At this point, I have pretty much written off the presidential portion of the election. I won't vote for Obama. He hit the trifecta with me since I am in three of the groups he has managed to insult; LGBT, women and rural Americans. I have studied and watched him and just do not feel he is ready to be the president. Obama will probably pick up a fair share of Hillary's supporters if he is the nominee but I don't vote on a strict party basis. There are too many issues I have with him and I can't see that anything will change those between now and November.

I won't vote for McCain. If he wins then I expect the Democratic majority in Congress to act as a check and balance as the Constitution intended them to do with the Executive branch. I have not been happy with the Bush administration but I am not going to allow fear of Republicans to determine my vote either. I survived the last seven and a half years. Four years with power divided between the parties won't be the end of the world. Funny thing, I don't buy the whole need to unify the country and usher in a post partisan era. I have grown tired of the name calling and vilifying that goes on between the two parties and find it strange how the supporters of the unity candidate talk as disparagingly about the other party as they continue to do.

You say, "He hit the trifecta with me since I am in three of the groups he has managed to insult; LGBT, women and rural Americans. I have studied and watched him and just do not feel he is ready to be the president."

Now, I am living in a western Loudoun which tries to claim it is still rural but the three times I have gone to an Obama post-card writing session the room was full of women of all ages including old codgers like me who WERE NOT CITY BRED but born in this are in the hey day of racism, poverty--the "red neck" profile.

My great buddy Nick Benton is openly gay, and a supporter of gay causes and he has come over to supporting Obama, who he never faulted on gay issues to my knowledge (of course he is not a woman.)

I hope that when the air clears and one or the other of the candidates opposes McCain you will change your mind. I don't want this country sink into the mire of depression and war with no effective leadership in the White House and a putative Democratic majority in the House and Senate blocked by the president's veto power.

PLUS MY FRIEND, MC CAIN WILL FOR SURE CONTINUE THE BUSH REDEFINITION OF THE PRESIDENCY--WHICH HAS BEEN TAKING US DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO BECOME A DE FACTO DICTATORSHIP.

carol

I didn't say that every woman, LGBT or rural American was offended but there are plenty who do feel that way. I don't care if they weren't offended or if you don't understand why I am, these are my own feelings. I can also provide you with others who are in the same boat with me.

Second, your own use of language is a perfect example of why the Democratic party and especially those that support Obama just don't get it:

room was full of women of all ages including old codgers like me who WERE NOT CITY BRED but born in this are in the hey day of racism, poverty--the "red neck" profile.

And I am not as convinced that John McCain is as evil as the left (I'll be considerate and leave out the condescending descriptives that others use to describe them) portrays him to be either. As far as I can see from many Obama supporters and his campaign, the talk about ushering in a new era of change in politics is nothing but talk while the actions say something entirely different. Obama can't take my vote for granted because he is the Democratic nominee and I won't be scared into voting for him because he is opposing McCain. It will be the first presidential campaign I have not cast a vote in but I am so sick of the hypocrisy that I don't care.