First Strikes: Bombing Civilians

The discussion on the Bill Moyers Journal, last night, shows the problem with War, Wars of Choice, Occupations and especially Guerilla/Insurgent Warfare, of which all conflicts are, and have been, now for many years, and will continue to be!

And why there is Criminal Terrorism and the rise of!

Bill Moyers Journal, January 30, 2009

Bill Moyers sits down with historian Marilyn Young, author of the forthcoming "Bombing Civilians: A Twentieth-century History" and former Pentagon official Pierre Sprey, who developed military planes and helped found the military reform movement.

Watch the Discussion

Sprey says:

Does it kill the person it's intended to kill? Not often. And when it does, it usually kills a bunch of other people around. And that, of course, raises the problem that the Predator and the missiles become a recruiting tool for the opposition and — beyond a shadow of a doubt — recruit more opposition than we get rid of by killing the one person at the table that we wanted to kill.

Read the Transcript, some cuts from:

BILL MOYERS: Marilyn, what did you think last weekend when four days into the Obama administration we read those reports of the strikes in Pakistan?

 

MARILYN YOUNG: My heart sank. It absolutely sank. It had been very high. I had been, like I think the rest of the country, feeling immensely encouraged and inspired by this new administration and by the energy and vigor with which he began. And then comes this piece of old stuff on approach to a complicated question that in comes in the form of a bomb and a bomb in the most dangerous of all places. And, yeah, my heart sank, literally.

 

BILL MOYERS: Our military, Pierre, says it's sure that it's striking militants in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And that they're not targeting civilians. Can they be sure? From your experience, can they be sure?

 

PIERRE SPREY: I'm sure that their purpose is to strike militants. I have no doubt of that whatsoever. But with the weapons they use and with the extremely flawed intelligence they have.

 

MARILYN YOUNG: Yes.

 

PIERRE SPREY: I'd be astonished if one in five people they kill or wound is in fact, a militant.

 

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean "flawed intelligence"?

 

PIERRE SPREY: You can't tell with a camera or an infrared sensor or something whether somebody's a Taliban. In the end, you're relying on either, you know, some form of intercepted communications, which doesn't point at a person. It just, you know, points at a radio or a cell phone or something like that. Or, most likely, you're relying on some Afghani of unknown veracity and unknown motivation and who may, may very well be trying to settle a blood feud rather than give you good information.

 

Further On:

 

BILL MOYERS: I don't understand that because George W. Bush defined this as a war on terror. And I think Obama must be using the same invocation, you know?

 

PIERRE SPREY: Exactly.

 

BILL MOYERS: This is all part of the war on terror. He said it in his inaugural address.

 

PIERRE SPREY: Yes, he said that. I was appalled. You talk about our hearts sinking.

 

PIERRE SPREY: 9/11 was not an act of war.

 

BILL MOYERS: What was it?

 

PIERRE SPREY: It was a criminal act. It was a simple.

 

MARILYN YOUNG: Right.

 

PIERRE SPREY: Criminal act by a bunch of lunatic fanatic violent people who needed to be tracked down and apprehended and tried exactly as you would with any other lunatic violent person, like we do with our own domestic terrorists, like the guy who bombed the Oklahoma federal building.

 

BILL MOYERS: Federal building. Right.

 

PIERRE SPREY: You know? Exactly the same thing we did to him is what we should have launched on a huge basis, of course, on a huge international police basis and not called it.

 

MARILYN YOUNG: And there would have been totally international support.

 

PIERRE SPREY: It's not a war.

 

MARILYN YOUNG: Right.

 

PIERRE SPREY: We, by calling it a war, we have glorified al Qaeda. We have glorified the cause of violent radical Islam. All that tiny minority have become heroes. And we made them heroes. We made their propaganda. We made their case for them.

 

{OK, if this posts, I noticed something else amiss. There is no longer a cutoff point, where you can post a small part at top, cutting off at cursor, than the rest in another box that comes up. You folks are the techies, I'm just tryin to explain ;c] }

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Thanks for your patience and understanding ... working on the problem(s), hope to have everything up to snuff in short order. Cool

Dokey ;c]

Just thought someone needed to know so the clitches could be fixed.

Wish I was younger and my hard drive wasn't full, the brain, I'd be able to absorb more of this techie stuff.

"The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable."

It workie now, getting something about adding something for 'captcha' but there was an arithmetic problem there to solve for posting, Good Job!!

"The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable."

Please let me know if you have any more problems. I emailed you, so you should have my addy.

roxy