Did the Original Maverick get his Saddleback? The Purpose Driven Election

I have a few things that are really sticking in my craw. First, why are we having a "presidential debate" in a church (even if it is one that is the size of a stadium)? Second, why would a Democratic candidate agree to debate in a church like Saddleback?

Yikes! Folks! this is some scary stuff. Here is a little background on Pastor Warren ...

Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren (author of The Purpose Driven Life -- and other marvelous works).

Saddleback to Hold 25th Anniversary Celebration Event Tomorrow Saddleback members and attendants, along with Christian leaders and other guests around the world will celebrate the church’s 25th anniversary tomorrow in Anaheim Stadium.

Saturday, Apr. 16, 2005 Posted: 10:51:29AM EST LOS ANGELES

Around 45,000 members and regular attendants of Lake Forest, Calif.’s Saddleback Church, along with Christian leaders and other guests around the world will convene tomorrow at Edison International Field in Anaheim to celebrate the church’s 25th anniversary and the founding of the Purpose Driven Movement.

Rick Warren's DEFINITION of P.E.A.C.E.

  • Planting churches,
  • Equipping servant leaders,
  • Assisting the poor,
  • Caring for the sick,and
  • Educating the next generation.

 

And this from the Orange County Register via MSNBC:

A Purpose in Africa Rwanda, a tiny east African nation still recovering from a 1994 genocide that killed up to 1 million of its citizens, is the test site for Saddleback Church's new "P.E.A.C.E." plan.

The initiative will commit at least $5 million and send thousands of Saddleback worshippers to some of the world's most politically complex and poorest countries to found churches, train clergy, and aid in poverty-fighting and other social programs.

Warren said he would encourage small groups of laypeople to "adopt" a needy village and use church planning kits, among other tools, to establish missions.

The goal is to place millions of Christian "foot soldiers" in the developing world to tackle the "global Goliaths" of poverty, illiteracy, disease, lack of spirituality and corrupt political leaders - described by Warren as the world's "little Saddams."

"These problems are so big no government can solve them," he said. "The only thing big enough is the network of millions and millions ... of churches around the world. We are God's plan to bring relief."

Kagame, in the United States both to meet with President George W. Bush and drum up private investment, spoke briefly about his country's involvement with Saddleback, which will start next month with the arrival of 16 Rwandan religious leaders in Orange County.

Rwanda - The Christian Coalitions Petrie Dish?

News with Views According to the Baptist Press, the anniversary event in Anaheim included greetings from President Bush and Billy Graham. This, like many other church celebrity endorsements and appearances, adds a perceived legitimacy to the movement while distracting participants from the unbiblical nature of the man and the plan. Chuck Colson was also there to give Warren his support; but these men, like all Warren supporters, should know that the Bible has stern warnings about strengthening the hand of evildoers.

So, what is Warren teaching his followers by invoking selective parts of the David and Goliath story to sell his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan? Here are a few revealing quotes Berit Kjos found in some of Warren’s 40 Days materials that she included in a recent article of hers entitled: Creating Community (Part 2). They will illustrate quite clearly how he uses socialist slogans to teach Laodocian lies.

Warren: "We is more powerful than me.

Warren: "There is power in partnership.... Evangelism is always a team effort.

Warren: "There's no such thing as a lone ranger Christian.... We're better together and we belong together.

Warren: "The Bible says we're better together. We were created for community."

He's Teaching that bigger is better, more is mightier and you can’t win by going it alone using, of all things, the story of a small shepherd boy who single-handedly whipped the Philistines while the Israelites watched in amazement from a nearby hill.

Anybody out there thinking this bears further scrutiny?

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As your opening questions, Especially after one that has been in the planning for months, first in the primaries than should have taken place last monday night, in Front of Military Families, Military Personal, Veterans, and Advocate Groups of.

I have the post about it around here someplace.

Neither camp wanted it and the Obama camp used the excuse of other commitments, seems those were vacation time.

Posted on KOS also and as before got few replys but similar slams, one even alluding to this being a christian nation!

I didn't watch this pony show, nor the reruns!!

Bring our Veterans All the Way Back - PTSD

"The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable."

Warren has decided, after endorsing Bush in 2004, that he should not endorse a candidate again but focus on issues instead.

debating in a church ... and I agree with Jim. If they couldn't debate in front of the military, then ...

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. ~ George Carlin

I agree it is a terrible idea and would prefer to see them end this pandering to churches and religious groups. We shouldn't be mixing religion and politics. I have no idea of why Democrats have decided to cave and give ground to the Republicans on yet another issue. The Republicans use these religious affiliations to push the wedge issues and the GOP is the only beneficiary from what I can tell. These ministers of megachurches are too much about power themselves and I can understand them wanting to increase their own power politically but it rarely works out to be better for the people in the congregation who get hoodwinked by the minister and the politician.

It is clear that we are already so far down the path of a marriage between churches and political action. At least Warren seems to be encouraging a more encompassing vision of what the churches should be discussing when compared to the one trick ponies like Dobson's Focus on the Freepers and other Christianists and Christofascists warped views.

No, I don't like it. But we are already at the point where, like the difference between the Democratic and Republican party, we need to seriously evaluate the lesser of two evils.

And we need to keep on fighting to lessen the effects of their actions. The tide is turning, but it is still one hell of a long haul battle ahead of us.

Shock Doctrine..

Have you read it yet, CTMan1? -- What you are saying could come right out of its pages.

I am thinking everyone concerned about democracy in America should read it.

Maybe I should write a book about it too? Because I feel the same way about it all. lol

. . . debating . .

Seemed to me like Warren and Obama had a good conversation; McCain (Stumpy) was "see 'n say" sound bites. But it wasn't a debate.

I read a really interesting book, The Family by Jeff Sharlett, which is definitely guaranteed to run chills down your spine. He traces a Jesus faction of extreme right wing operatives who date back to the early days of the New Deal and are still active today--holding congressional prayer circles for example. Chuck Colson is big in this group (His prison ministry) and Hillary Clinton apparently attends regularly when she is in town.

They routinely network foreign dictators, etc.

Their "Jesus" (with whom members are in direct contact through prayer and meditation) does not require Church attendance or behavior according to cnventional norms. He rewards those in power who are likely to serve him effectively.

You gotta read it to see how it plays out. An American version of a really spooky Nazi-type, master-race ideology, The latter part of the book looks at mega evangelical churches. They seem to be functioning as social meeting grounds which replace government functions as funding disappears from local government coffers.

THAT SAID. I think that many, many Americans turn to churches not so much for theological reasons but for an affirmation of their worth. I don't take likely the implications of "Jesus loves me," even if..... my life is screwed up, I am poor and scared of loosing everything..... my spouse has left me....my kids are screwed up and hate me. The horrible, remorseless grind of daily existence in paradise USA.

I have no objection in trying to offer an alternative to decent people for whom the church appears to be their only hope.

I think the McCain affair is also a major embarassment for Rick Warren. Truth is truth. He did say McCain was on church premises when it is no acknowledged by everyone that he was not.

If one is a "believer" I sure as hell prefer he or she believe in the Christ who succored the poor rather than the rich who are, if unchecked, destroying the earth and all of us on it.

carol